Guild Matters

[Aybabtu]

The time has come to re-evaluate DL's mission statement. At present we are too large to be a "small family guild" and with too small a spread of members to be a MC or AQ40 Guild

We may be able to get ZG off the ground, but only if i have some assistance running it, because RL means i can't promise to be around every week. If people manage to get reasonably well equipped in ZG, then AQ20 may be an option.

So i want to hear from the members what it is that they want.

Personally i feel that most people's best chances for MC are resting in some kind of coalition, like vex, lickers or another. PvP is one way to go, tho i am aware that many are not PvP specced, myself included, and do not wish to play PvP, myself included.

Which leaves me with the feeling that i am about to make the guild a whole lot more exclusive, and a lot of ppl may not like that.

Many have commented that the guild has lost it's friendly nature of late, and i have noticed that myself - Fewer greets, fewer grats, fewer goodbyes. maybe it's time for a return to the old DL. I don't know yet, but it's been preying on my mind, and i think it's an issue that needs resolving, fast


Ayb

[Kementari]

This is a very difficult question. As we DL's represent a wide range of playing styles, be it (almost exclusive) PVP, end-game instancing, alt leveling or socializing, it might prove highly difficult to establish a clear mission statement for the guild, as we cannot force players to do things they don't want to do.

DL has always been a newbiefriendly guild, and as I see it, still is to quite some degree. We've had an influx of new players in recent times, and I think they have received help, or am I completely mistaken? I'd love to see some input from recent members, as well as fresh thoughts on what the future of DL should look like, from their perspective. All opinions are good opinions

Maybe we've grown too much too fast and people haven't had the time to get to know the new people. The recruitement restrictions now in place may give the current members some breathing time.

Returning to the Old DL might not be possible anymore. The original members have almost all either changed to varying degrees or quit playing altogether. The magic we all felt in the beginning when everything in the game was new and fresh to us has all but dissipated.

Ayb, have you talked to the GM's of other large guilds about this? Have they had similar concerns and how have they resolved them? Maybe we could rebuild some of the harmony DL has lost with the help of such information?

[serv]

Honestly i can understand where everyones coming from on this,i remember when i first joined the guild and there wasnt more than 50ish members.
Everyone was nice and spoke to everyone,offerd what items they found and didnt need for some purpose and then said bye when there friends and to some degree like a second family logged off.

The thing is the guild is changing,the majority of people in the guild are no longer low level and there for need things to ocupie them.The things the majority of people are doing is instance runs,to get better equipment and progress ferther into the game.

I can see how you could loose track of guild chat when your tanking/healing/Dpsing in an instance when its not number one priority,your main goal is to finish the instance and reap the rewards of your time.

The close family we once had is growing and its happening to try and get the guild ferther into endgame play i think.All we really need to do is spend some time with the new members and get to know them i think,then they to will become apart of the family.

Sorry about the long assed post i was just trying to see things from both point of views.Personally i would rather have a guild of close friends but i can understand how people want to explore end game areas more.

[zebidy]

I know I am no longer in the Guild but I wanted to add my 2 cents to this.

I think it is a very good point that Ayb is making here, what do the DL's want to do and when I say want that means you gotta turn up.


End Game
Something that I have notcied over the past wees / months is a lot of ppl saying they want to do end game stuff, MC/ZG/AQ.

Ayb took time out and ran a ZG instance, everyone turned up (some late) but it was a great run and everyone was happy and said they enjoyed it, the next time only 13 ppl turned up and 1 or 2 of those didn't belong to the Guild. Why?

Also, MC has been mentioned alot and as Vexillum was thinking about making a second team I made a post asking ppl to contact me about joining, not 1 person did.

To me this means DL are not an end game Guild and ppl should not ask / moan about other ppl in the Guild in Coalitions to do end game when they can't be bothered to commit the same effort and time as those that are getting the Epix.

There is no room for jealousy in DL

What I would like to see is ZG and AQ20 even if, as Moggoth rightly said, "we farm the first AQ boss". This would give you a taste of end game and possible earn you some items that could assist you in getting into an end game Coalition or maybe just help you play your toon better.

Time and advice has always been available by veteran members, and I have helped many people with getting equipment or even just telling them what they need to farm to improve their chances of surviving in an end game instance and I will continue to do so, but we cannot instantly make an MC group nor get you into one just because you are in the same Guild.

So imo, for now and in the near future, end game is out of the question, prepare for ZG and get that going and maybe DL can move on to the next stage.

PVP
Now this I think is quite good but not everyone is spec'd for it, Zeb is certainly not.

Maybe we have a part of DL that is lead by a seasoned PVP-er and they organise DL PVP events, this would help recruit more PVP types and possibly allow other members to create PVP only toons.

Just a thought.

Friendship
To me the meaning of Dread Lords is Friendship and Unity, this is something that has been lost because too many people want to do things that the Guild cannot offer just yet, as such rather than work on enhancing the Guild they have caused trouble in some shape or form, not deliberately but unrest has been caused.

Invites are definately one thing, Officers should no longer be able to invite ppl only a higher level should be able to as we have had several problems of late.

Item offering is very nice and has decreased as ppl need the money etc, this is unavoidable but remember you can always offer your services, making bags, armor kits, weapons, enchants etc.

Help, this has not decreased or increased the same level is there but it does seem to be selective whcih needs to change, as we must get to know the new members and help them progress as better players in the game and the Guild.

Finally this is my summary, at last you are probably saying.

Dread Lords should be / have

1. Clear Sub Leaders for PVP, PVE that help run events

2. End Game is not an option but advice and experience is always available to help ppl get into Coalitions as Dread Lords is a very respected name.

3. Socialable, talk, chat, mess around in Guild chat build friendships you may meet us some day at DL Con.

4. PVE, aim low and finish high, lets get people doing instances and build the group so we can do ZG, I don't mean Hakkar but aim for 3 bosses and we may just get there if you stay realistic.

6. PVP, with good leadership and a bit of commitment you can get very good gear from PVP.

5. Epix, don't be jealous of ppl with Epix, they have worked hard for them and when they repair its costs 10g, remember how much you pay and think thank god I don't have to pay that coz some idiot in a pick up group wiped the raid.


That's it, may be it makes sense I'm not sure as it is early and I am knackered but have a think about what you want and where you want to fit it and get out of Dread Lords.

The future is in your hands.

Zebidy

[lahar]

I could have written it all by myself, Zeb. (NOT! )

Good points and good advice.

Reinvite then, Zeb?

[quicker]

Aybabtu, I would love to run ZG with the GUild. I understand what you have said about needing support with setting it up and maintaining it and I can help out on that side,especially as the summer holidays are nearly upon us . The first thing would be to establish the best time and day and see how many can make it and try and get the bosses, one by one to farming status. I am currently running ZG with the Blazing Fist team but will give that up if I can get some in Guild action (hehe) and start off withy ou guys from the beginning again. Let me know if you want me on board and what I can do to help (loot lists and that kind of thing although tbh I think that n/g is fairer than loot lists for many items) and I can get email addresses so I can reach people out of game to let them know what is happening. Anyway i can be helpful Ayb, I am yours

[zirk]

I, agree with a number of issue's here.

I feel lack of support from members and also possibly encouragement from officers / Guild leaders may be why A number of the larger raids have not taken off. (plz dont take offence, this is just my opinion)

Im' not criticising the ayb's or any of other of the Officers.
in other games i have run very large Corps with hundreds of members and somtimes you can hate logging on as all your time is just listening to people complain and dealing with issues when all you want is to play the game.

I do think we need to all get together not just the officers and talk this out in guild chat possible on agreed time when we can get everyone one.

Many of us live hard lives as well, i commute 15 hours a week, usually im unable to get on the game till after 7.30 pm, and i know many other members who have similar commitments.

I am willing to help as much as possible and am willing to lead any instance run each week if it will help.

But we need to define what is need by our members, there are certain quests i myself need to do to allow me to get through to some on the end game instances.
May be if we can define a list which a number of guild members need to do we can set out a timetable which would allow a number of the non MC members to progress to a stage were they are reday for a number of end game instance's.

MC is an issue, But i agree if we cant arrange a regular 20 man guild event then Mc will never be possible.

I prefer to raid with guild members I also prefer to be in a team i know and someone in charge who i trust, (or myself of course). So again i would prefer to be in a MC raid were it was lead my a DL with a majority of DL's in it.

May be that can be an aim, But from what i understand a number of The DL's in MC runs state they wont leave the groups they are in. I personally think if we can arrange a regular DL MC run, that should take priority as why the hell are we in a guild if we dont work together.

PVP, i would love to do arranged guild event's, especially if we worked in our own group using tatics rather than run die run die. (i'd be happy to run one of these)

Zirk

[?orky]

Well spoke Zirk

[zirk]

I would like to put up a note

I would like to give a Big thanks to Aybabtu, 1 he let me join the guild, two he helped my in numerous ways, items, materials help on quests you name it has been their.

But most of all he one of the friendliest guilds / corps i have been a member of.
Never before i have i enjoyed working with a group of people like the Dread Lords. This was no small feat for ayb to do with the help of other guild members he made an excellent guild.

From my own experience of MMORPG if you run a guild and corp it is hard it takes your time up it also removes alot of you game time so your enjoyment comes from helping and making the guild work as much. I think many of us have forgot what our complaints and moanings, how they would affect Ayb. Firstly i Apologise for myself, as i know i have moaned about a few issue's

I hope he re- considers and comes back to The Dread Lords as i will miss him.

Ayb if you read this and take care and good luck, plus i hope to see you change your mind.

Tigra any help i can give just ask.
Also anyone who wanst to make the Dread lords work, Guild masters dont have a magic Wand to make everything work, we need to talk and work things out but this takes work on your part as does mine.

Xirk

[Grumbledook]

I am not going to comment on the guild status. I have been in DL since i was level 6 on my first character, and never once have i seriously considered quitting the guild. To me, DL is'nt just a guild, it is an insignia that shows who my friends are and hopefully encourages other players believe i am a competent player. DL has been like my own personal slice of wow i can look at in detail, with friendships growing and maturing like a ripened story unfolding before me and i wouldnt give it up for the world.

In respect to the ZG raids, i believe that ZG is a definate achievable goal that the guild can accomplish in the short term. I know Quicks has volunteered to help organise the raid, and i would also liek to offer my services in any way possible. I may not be experienced with ZG, but like everyone i have to start somewhere, and i am happy to assist in any way possible.

Possibly one way to ease ourself into running ZG is to run smaller raid instances, such as UBRS, on an alternating (or simultaneous) weekly basis to help build up skills and confidence in our team mates abilities, and make sure we at least have the bare nessecitys to start running ZG. This would provide newer players with a chance to obtain some set items and gain raiding experience with the guild, and also to get to know one another. Of course, we could also apply the same to PvP raiding if members wished to do so, and once again i would be happy to help set up venues. I know the gates of Ironforge have been mocking me for some time, and i would love to see Illidans statue without rolling an Ally Charcter.

WoW, like may things, offers different aspects to different players. Some like PvE more than PvP and that is fine. Some like both, and once again that is fine. The key is finding somewhere to accomadate the majority of players, yet without pushing out the other players. I know people say that "I'm not PvP Specced" or "I cant do instances" but the fact you are specced for PvP Doesnt mean you cannot run ZG with us, or the fact that you are Specced for PvE raids doesnt mean you cant kick ass in WSG. I'm tank specced, yet i still enjoy PvP when i get the chance (Ooh, pally PvP enabled = kill ;D). All a spec is is an advantage, and fair enough if that disadvantage is enough to get you nothing but a repair bill or you simply do not want to PvP / PvE, but in order to prosper we must choose which we want to come first and focus on that, but with accomodation for the other. Exclusivity is not for DL. DL is about fun and meeting new people and while we have unfortunately we have lost people due to not enough End game activities and too many fresh faces in the guild we still survive and push onwards, hopefully to brighter plains.

If you are considering leaving DL for whatever reason, Please dont. I have a feeling DL is set to become much more interesting very shortly .

Regards~
Grum