MC

[dayala]

saldia said:

Ok first off i have just started runs in MC with VEX and i dont plan on leaving that group anytime soon.

...and that's the reason DL as a guild will never proceed through the end game stuff. Now, this is not a problem for me personally, because I have an ally priest to raid with if I want to and Day is for when I want to relax. But, I can imagine that this will be an issue for others - further on if it isn't already.

As mentioned in this thread, alot of the Vex-people have alts that can join DL-raids and that's good I guess... However, I don't see this working out in the long run. Sure, that character might not be locked to an instance, but you can't play 2 characters at once which means that they will only be available on the days that Vex doesn't have anything planned... And apart from that, how many days/week do you have the energy to raid anyways?

Quite frankly, based on the experience from our ZG-attempts, I don't believe that DL is ready for MC. Last time we could barely scrape together 16 people, and I think even then we had some randoms/friends in the raid. It's impossible for us to get 40 peeps together, even if all the Vex-active members were to join. That's not such a big tragedy though imo, because I know from experience that clearing ZG first is an excellent practice for MC. Almost noone in my previous alliance guild had ever been to MC before when we went there with the guild the first time, and we killed Raggy in less than 2 months. There's really no need to rush things, we should start out small and move on to bigger stuff later, just like Saldia said. However, in the case of Dread Lords, I seriously doubt that we will ever be able to move on to bigger stuff just because of coalitions. We don't have a goal as a guild, because everyone is busy doing their own thing.

Sorry for being negative Nancy, but... I dunno. Recently I've found it hard to even get a group going to Strat and stuff, and that's a cap of 5 people.

/Day, who would be perfectly happy never to see the inside of MC ever ever again (except for when I pick up my EoD ) but sympathises with the people who really want to go there but can't.

[Aybabtu]

As most know i run MC with Vex. Fewer know that i'm relatively senior within it.

This is not to say that I don't want DL to be attempting MC in the future. The problem with DL as a guild is getting people to turn out to a regular instance and commit to progressing within it. Our first run went really well, but the second was difficult to get a grp together - and we need to have ppl turn up and be ready to give it their all.

Add to that the problem with classes - there are 2 L60 priests, 3 L60 druids and 4 rogues iirc - we simply need more non-alt players at that level.

I want Dread Lords to be able to run MC of its own volition in the not too distant future, but i have been trying to arrange ZG runs to get us used to working as a grp. and put quite simply we aren't ready for it yet.

Show that you want to go to MC - turn up to the ZG runs on alternate sundays! (presently RL commitments prevent me from running it every week)

without DL members it will be difficult to get the runs going - our loot systemn is very fair to guild members - but not very "outsider" friendly. consequently it will be difficult to get the runs going successfully unless guildies turn up.

Ayb

[homan]

/signed Day.

I have a suggestion that might upset people but it IS the only soulution. It will test the dedication of some Dread Lord's.

PM me

[DamageCase]

I'd hate to be the party pooper here, but I don't think Dread Lords is even near getting ready for MC.

First of all, in the most idealistic case, if *all* of our 60's would turn up for it we'd still be short on some classes. That poses problem no1 already.

Second, that's the most idealistic case, in truth it's much worse.
We have three kind of lvl 60's in the guild currently

• a group of 60's who simply don't care for MC, so you can rule those out basicly unless it's a free ride, which it obviously isn't.
  
• a group of 60's who already run MC with Vex or another coalition. I think I speak for most, if not all, in this group that they would never start MC again with a fresh group. Going through the lenghty, expensive, frustrating procces of mastering MC *again* Erm, no thank you.
  
• Lasty, the group that is being targetted here. Wanting to do MC and not active in a current group.
  There are too few of those in DL currently. Added to that that it is extremely hard to find a large group (at least 48) of people that *always* can be online on the same days and times. A group that is willing to spend 100's of gold in repaircosts, wanting to go on and on even if you know that the next pull will result in a wipe again, is motivated enough to do this several months in a row *2 times a week* A group that is reliable enough to even start this.
  

Judging from what I've seen and heard, sorry, a portion of this group does not fit in this description.
ZG runs hardly get of the ground, MC is a magnitude 10 of ZG when it comes to organising and dedication.

Sorry for being so negative here, but organising and leading Vexillum for 6 months has tought me a thing or two about end-game raiding and I find it very hard to envision 40 "Dread Lord" tags in MC.

However, if you do want to make a serious attempt at it I will try to help out where I can, I would be stoked if Dread Lords would pull it off.

[dayala]

Uhm, is it wrong of me to point out that we *do* have yet another option? Ta-daa, a GUILD-coalition. That would mean what? Well, that we try to find another guild not large enough to do instances (start small with ZG maybe, to get the teamwork going) with. The good thing about this is that it would still be a guild-thing, not *some* of the members in DL going out doin their thing on their own, leaving others with nothing to do since there are too few people online who are not in MC.

But, starting a whole new thing seems to be out of the question, so I guess that's not an option then. Good to know to be honest.

[Tigra / Nemesia / Moggoth]

very few words about Dread Lords and Molten Core.

Dont give me nuts about you wanting to go to MC. When The Coalition i happen to lead now had LOADS of free spots only few DL members signed for it tho i have been advertiseing it a lot includeing link in MotD. Basicaly you just whine about joining endgame but when it comes to takeing endgame action you are simply worthless.

And those are words of one of most dedicated DLs and Overlord of the guild.

Actually id really like to see you prove me being wrong... get ZG or AQ20 going on regular weekly basis and i may revise my opinion.

[DamageCase]

A guild coalition with one or two other guilds seems like a good deal to me, there are loads of guilds on Thunderhorn that are in the same situation as Dread Lords, loads of MC hungry people but not enough.

I think this would be the most sane sollution to get our members to run MC.

[dayala]

The question is though; would any of the Vex-people (or the ones from other coalitions, I don't really keep track) be prepared to give up Vex to get the guild MC-active instead? If not, then it still won't be a guild-coalition imo.

And Mogg, I just want you to know that I'm not in any way desperate to get into MC, so that's why I haven't signed. I will never take Day to MC, unless it's to help the guild out. So that's not where I'm coming from at all... I just think it would be nice to do things as a guild for a change. Having to join pugs, or at least taking a couple of randoms along for every instance is not something I enjoy doing.

Edit: To be honest though, now that I've thought about it some more, I seriously doubt there's anything that can change that. I love DL and the people in it, and I want to thank all of you for everything you've done for me... But I think it's time for me to move on. Take care, and good luck

[Tigra / Nemesia / Moggoth]

yes... guild runs would be nice, but we need fixed crew for it, lots of motivation and dedication.

Dread Lords were founded on sole base of free trade that benefits <60 characters so much, and that caused so called level 60 syndrome from our very first days. As far as it may still benefit 60s, it stops to be a reason to hold to guild.

And this way, many ppl leave in search for change or more thrill like PvP guilds, raiding guilds, tiny family-like guilds. Those that do not either focus on lvling alts, go pug pvp or raid in coalitions.

This is an awsome guild, aspecially for casual players. But hardcore gamers have tough life here.

Would i quit coalition runs for DL MC ? Yes. But only if it would really have a chance to become regular raid with future in BWL and AQ, or if it would happen on other days then coalition runs.

[dayala]

I could not have said it any better than you just did Mogg. Thank you for saving me the trouble to explain my leaving. I will probably end up in the category "tiny family-like guilds", since that's what makes me happy (that's why I joined DL in the first place ). However, one of the things I like best about small guilds is to see the players grow together and work towards the same goal, so maybe you'll see me in MC some day anyway...

[DamageCase]

I can hear where Mogs is coming from, the majority in Dread Lords is just too "casual" for getting some serious end-game of the ground. Not that it matters, I think Dread Lords is a great guild, with a superb athmosphere and people, dont' want to leave it for million (gold).

But we simply lack in end-game dedication. Just like Mog experienced with his recruiting for Coalition runs I had the same with Vexillum, when I started that DL was the first place I went looking for players, the turn-up and interrest was dramaticly low. Even to this day I every now and then get a whisper "can I join pls" and when I ask some questions it turns out half of the people asking didnt even bother to sign up or even read the Vex forums.

A perfect example of lack of dedication is shown here. I was very happy to see this thread coming up but got dissapointed inmediatly again.
Why? The starter of this thread, Zerip, showed his dedication and persistance for Dread Lord MC runs by signing up for another MC team two days after starting this thread...
If you want MC runs to work it needs a bit more time and devotion then two days....
And this lack is *the* reason it won't work for now.

As for me, no, I won't leave Vex. A: it's my own brainspawn. B: I think I did all I could to get Dread Lords in there. C: Vex is at a point of clearing MC in one night and are heading to BWL, I simply don't have the energy to start it over again.

But I'll tell you what, show me some decication, people that are willing to stand up and take controll and action by actively recruiting, managing and organising and I will help out where I can.

[zebidy]

Alot seems to have been said since I last looked.

One thing I can see is that if there is going to be a DL MC group or even a Coalition between Guilds there needs to be leaders, Zerip started this but has gone quiet

It's pretty obvious that Vex and Coal members prob. won't join becuase Coal are pretty far in MC and Vex hs moved onto BWL. That is not to say that Alts won't be attending as I for one am keen to take my Mage or level another charactor for it.

DC and Moggie are right, it takes a lot of time and preperation to do MC week after week, but I think it could be done over time. There is alot of experience in the Guild and that is always available whether that's in the form of tactics or help via main or alt.

If someone wants to step up and take the lead and get this going, I will ask DC/TC if I can take a short break from Vex to help tank a few times to get you going and hopefully I'll be able to come as an alt so I can always be a "back seat tanker" ;D

P.S Dayala, please don't go

Z.